理想汽车 (02015.HK、LI.US) 2025年第三季度业绩电话会
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会议摘要
The dialogue highlights Lee Auto's strategic transition to new energy consumption standards, leveraging 500V/800V platforms and 5C supercharging for efficiency gains. It underscores the company's commitment to in-house SOC and OS development, embodied AI, and an entrepreneurial model for growth. Despite financial challenges due to a recall, Lee Auto projects strong Q4 deliveries and revenue, focusing on market coverage through SKU simplification and enhanced product design. The company also outlines plans for expanding supercharging networks and advancing autonomous driving technologies, ensuring competitive edge and user-centric innovation.
会议速览
The earnings call for Lee Autotools' third quarter of 2025 was announced, with a press release detailing financial and operating results. Forward-looking statements were made, subject to risks and uncertainties, and the call included prepared remarks from the CEO and CFO, followed by a Q&A session with the President and CTO.
The company reflects on past challenges and future choices, emphasizing the suitability of the entrepreneurial model over the professional management model for its current dynamic environment and growth stage.
Dialogue emphasizes the necessity of deep conversations, user value, efficiency gains, and issue recognition for thriving in competitive environments. Reflects on personal experience with entrepreneurial vs. professional management, deciding to revert to the entrepreneurial model starting Q4 to leverage strengths and tackle new technological challenges.
The dialogue explores three paths for automotive innovation: electric vehicles, smart devices, and embodied AI. It argues that while electric vehicles and smart devices have their merits, embodied AI offers the most transformative potential by merging vehicles with robotics, enabling them to act as proactive assistants, enhancing user convenience and safety. This approach envisions cars as integral, sentient parts of daily life, akin to characters in 'Transformers' or 'Knight Rider'.
The dialogue explores the choice between language-based and embodied AI systems, highlighting the unique requirements of each. It emphasizes the need for a comprehensive AI system capable of physical interaction, akin to a human body, which currently lacks third-party suppliers or any single company providing the complete solution.
The dialogue emphasizes the necessity for embodied AI to accurately understand and interact with the physical world, advocating for the integration of powerful local computation, precise hardware modifications, and a seamless hardware-software synergy to enhance AI's embodiment and operational efficiency.
Emphasizing the critical need for advancements in perception models, tailored hardware, and optimized software, the dialogue outlines a strategic approach to elevate autonomous driving technology. By focusing on embodied AI, which integrates human-like reaction times and improved perception ranges, significant safety enhancements and performance boosts are anticipated. The narrative underscores the importance of continuous innovation and investment in AI technologies, setting the stage for transformative changes in the automotive industry, aiming to reduce accident rates and improve user experience.
The dialogue covers the company's Q3 financials, including a 36.2% YoY revenue drop to RMB 27.4 billion, gross profit decline, and operational losses. It also outlines the company's commitment to enhancing user value and improving performance in embodied intelligence over the next 3-5 years.
Instructions are given on how to ask, cancel, or resubmit questions during a call, emphasizing clarity, brevity, and language preference for Mandarin speakers.
The dialogue outlines expected technological advancements by 2026, focusing on AI systems enhancing user services and potential unimagined changes over the next decade. It also details the company's preparation for transitioning from E to Be, emphasizing in-house development of electric drive, battery systems, and electronic control technologies to ensure efficiency, safety, and enhanced user experience.
The dialogue covers updates on the production, ramp-up, and delivery challenges of the IH and I6 models, addressing customer concerns and the company's strategy to resolve supply bottlenecks. It also discusses the significant drop in operating cash flow, attributing it to decreased deliveries and changes in payment cycles to suppliers, while emphasizing the company's commitment to maintaining strong supply chain partnerships.
Discusses adapting sales strategies and product innovations to offset policy changes, focusing on new vehicle standards, charging infrastructure, and supply chain efficiencies. Highlights a major generational upgrade for the L series, aiming to reclaim market leadership with enhanced technology and design, all while balancing market coverage and user experience.
Discussed recall's impact on Q4 GP M R chain, Mega delivery adjustments, and VLA driver enhancements. Highlighted improvements in user experience, safety features, and upcoming OTA upgrades, emphasizing progress in autonomous driving and smart mobility ecosystem.
A query was made regarding advancements in the company's internally developed System on Chip (SOC) and operating system, seeking management's update on their progress.
Discussed advancements in integrated system design reducing development time and costs, highlighting open-source collaboration through a Technical Steering Committee. Outlined progress in AI inference chip development, aiming for superior performance-to-cost ratios. Emphasized continuous improvement and lower-cost development for future platforms.
要点回答
Q:What are the three most important choices the company needs to make for the next decade?
A:The company needs to make decisions related to organization (whether to choose an entrepreneurial model or a professional management model), products (the type of products they should build), and technology (the direction in which technology should be headed).
Q:What are the fundamental differences between the entrepreneurial model and the professional management model?
A:The entrepreneurial model and the professional management model differ in management principles and key operating principles. They are tailored to different stages of growth and industry environments. The professional management model relies on relatively stable industry and technology cycles, the enterprise being in a leading position with a stable status, and the founder and founding team being uninvolved or losing motivation. The entrepreneurial model is better suited for rapidly changing environments with an unstable industry and technology cycles, and the company not yet being a leader, with the founder and founding team being actively involved and passionate.
Q:Why does the company believe it fits better into the entrepreneurial model?
A:The company believes it fits better into the entrepreneurial model due to the rapidly changing environment, the unstable industry, the fact that it is not yet a leader, and because the founder and founding team remain fully motivated and involved in daily work.
Q:What are the four key aspects of the entrepreneurial model that the company focuses on?
A:The four key aspects of the entrepreneurial model that the company focuses on are: 1) fostering deep conversations to increase knowledge and judgment, 2) focusing on user value rather than just short-term delivery results, 3) increasing efficiency while reducing resource occupation, and 4) concentrating on solving key issues rather than creating information asymmetry.
Q:Why did the company and its team realize that adapting to the professional management model was not the right fit?
A:The company and its team realized that adapting to the professional management model was not the right fit because it led to them becoming a diminished version of themselves. They recognized the need to embrace an entrepreneurial model that aligns with their strengths and usual practices, especially given their passion for products and rapidly changing technologies.
Q:What is the choice of organizational model for the next decade?
A:Starting from Q4 this year, the company and the founding team will revert to the entrepreneurial model to embrace the new era and technological challenges.
Q:What important choice does the company need to make regarding products?
A:The company needs to make an important choice regarding whether to focus on electric vehicles or smart devices and how to define the product it should build for users. This choice influences whether the focus is on larger space, more range, and cheaper prices for electric vehicles or on features and experiences traditionally found in smartphones and smart tablets within the car environment.
Q:What are the proposed features of the embodied AI in cars?
A:The embodied AI in cars is envisioned to have perception like eyes and ears, modeling capability like a brain and nerves, computing power like a heart, and a reshaped hardware form to be a stronger physical presence. It should be able to perform tasks such as driving, picking up and charging cars, opening and closing doors, and providing services like a parent or an assistant to make the user's life more convenient and safer.
Q:What is the significance of embodied AI products according to the speaker?
A:The speaker suggests that the most valuable embodied AI products in the next decade will be vehicles that are not only automated but also proactive. These products will provide automated and proactive services that change the life of users and are considered to be like the car-shaped robots seen in movies and shows like Transformers. The speaker views this as the biggest challenge and opportunity for entrepreneurs in the new era.
Q:What are the two models for the full stack AI system and their differences?
A:The two models for the full stack AI system are language-based and those faced towards the physical world. The language-based model is primarily focused on computational power and is suited for digital tasks. In contrast, an AI system for embodied AI must have a better understanding of the physical world, integrate optimally with hardware and software, operate at higher frequencies, and have computation power that resides on the device itself rather than the cloud. Additionally, it requires tailored chips and the modification of hardware to become embodiment-specific.
Q:What specific changes are required in the perception models and hardware for embodied AI?
A:For embodied AI, significant changes are required in perception models and hardware. These include an increase in the effective range of perception, tailored chips for embodied AI, a strong compiler team for high efficiency, and the integration of 3D vision transformer technology. The goal is to improve the understanding and perception of the physical world, utilize human data more effectively, and enhance the closed-loop response time for autonomous driving systems.
Q:How can embodied AI lead to better performance in autonomous driving?
A:By focusing on solving the key issues in every stack on every level of the stack, the next generation of autonomous driving can increase performance by five to tenfold, according to the speaker. This approach looks at the entirety of the control mechanism and seeks to reduce the time from perception to execution, potentially by as much as 550 milliseconds compared to a typical autonomous driving system. This improvement can lead to a significant reduction in accident rates and enhance the overall safety and user experience.
Q:What are the key strategic choices that have been made to support the company's future development?
A:The key strategic choices that support the company's future development include focusing on short-term weight, staying on the right path over the long term, and continuing to invest in the right areas, backed by a strong financial foundation.
Q:What financial performance results were reported for the third quarter?
A:The financial performance results for the third quarter include total revenue of RMB 27.4 billion, a decrease of 36.2% year over year and 9.5% contraction, with RMB 25.9 billion from vehicle sales. The sequential decline in revenue was partially offset by a higher average selling price due to different product mix. The cost of sales was RMB 22.9 billion, down 22.0% year over year and 5.3% over the previous quarter.
Q:What were the changes in the company's gross profit and vehicle margin?
A:Gross profit in the third quarter was RMB 4.5 billion, which was 51.6% lower year over year and represented a gross margin of 26.3%. The vehicle margin would have been 19.8% in the third quarter due to the recall cost. Cross market in the third quarter was 16.3%, which would have been 20.4% excluding recall costs.
Q:What is the impact of the pay of new vehicles and product configuration adjustments on research and development expenses?
A:The pay of new vehicles and increased investment in planning the product portfolio and technology, along with expenses from product configuration adjustments, caused the year-over-year increase in research and development expenses.
Q:What is the change in the company's operating margin and net loss from the same period last year?
A:The operating margin in the third quarter was negative 4.3% compared to 8% in the same period last year and 2.7% in the prior quarter. The net loss in the third quarter was RMB 624.4 million, compared to a net income of RMB 2.8 billion in the same period last year and RMB 1.1 billion in the prior quarter.
Q:What is the company's outlook for vehicle deliveries and revenue in the fourth quarter of 2025?
A:The company expects vehicle deliveries in the fourth quarter of 2025 to be between 100,000 and 110,000 vehicles, with total revenue between RMB 5.65 billion and RMB 29.2 billion. This outlook is based on the company's current and preliminary view on its business situation and market conditions, which are subject to change.
Q:What are the focuses within electric drive, battery systems, and electronic control?
A:The focus within electric drive systems is on efficiency and user experience, with an in-house developed and outsourced manufacturing of silicon carbide power chips, power modules, and motor controllers, as well as establishing a dedicated drive owner factory. The company has developed a full chain in-house development capability from silicon carbide power chips to electric motor assemblies. The battery system focus is on safety, with capabilities around 5 C ultra-charging batteries, full control over chemistry, BMS control modules and algorithms, battery pack layouts, and structural design. The electronic control system aims to provide the best driving experience through in-house developed hardware and software, including full-stack development capabilities for powertrain control, power management, and engine calibration.
Q:What is the company's strategy on the supply front for battery systems?
A:The company's strategy on the supply front for battery systems is a combined approach of external procurement and in-house development and production. This combined strategy is expected to further strengthen battery safety and improve user experience.
Q:How does the company plan to manage the delivery delays for the I 6 model?
A:The company sincerely apologized to customers who placed orders for the I 6 model and are still waiting for delivery due to supply chain constraints, component planning, and production ramp-up pace. The company's team is working around the clock to accelerate production and expedite the delivery process.
Q:What is the expected impact of the subsidy phase-out on sales, and what strategy is being implemented to address it?
A:The phase-out of the subsidy will lead to a pull-forward effect in sales as customers rush to lock in their purchase before the end of 2025, which is expected to result in a substantial dip in deliveries in Q1 2026. The company is preparing for this with a 'peace of mind' purchase program that covers the purchase tax difference for iix customers who locked in their orders in 2025 but paid delivery in 2026. The company is also ensuring all 2026 models meet new standards for gas and energy consumption to qualify for 2026 incentives. In the longer term, the company will offset policy impacts through technology advancements, such as adopting a 500-800 volts high voltage platform and 5 C ultra-fast batteries, aiming to operate about 4800 supercharging stations by 2026, and leveraging economies of scale and supply chain localization to stabilize pricing and accelerate product iteration.
Q:What are the planned upgrades for the L series in the next year?
A:The planned upgrades for the L series in the next year will be a major generational improvement based on user feedback and research, featuring a simplified SKU approach for market coverage and supply chain efficiency. The base model will maintain a strong user experience without compromises, with an upgraded design that strikes a balance between brand identity and user appeal. Core technology will include 5G supercharging for all models, integrated with the existing charging network.
Q:Can you provide an update on the recall and the latest situation regarding the replacement of units?
A:The recall was announced and involves lowering the delivery of 2020-25 models to ship replacement units to customers for recall. This action is deemed beneficial for customers and aligns with the company's value proposition.
Q:What is the progress of the VLA driver across all Ad Max vehicles, and what are the user feedback and future plans?
A:The VLA driver was rolled out to all Ad Max vehicles in September, and the model migration capability allows all Ad Max users, including new i-series and L9 users from 2020, to access the new features. User feedback and data analysis have shown effectiveness and improvements in the L and I series owners' experiences. Future plans include ongoing iteration of the VLA with the release of OTA 8.1 in early December, which will enhance perception capabilities and responsive behavior. An architecture upgrade will also be deployed to strengthen decision-making processes and compatibility with the upcoming 100 chip core system improvements.
Q:What progress has been made in the development of the in-house developed SOC and operating system, and what is the future development outlook?
A:The in-house developed AI aim for system is a core foundation for intelligent vehicles, featuring an integrated architecture to reduce development time by 20% and costs. The company has an ongoing collaboration with open source OS Ena for a community charter and has established the Technical Steering Committee. A focus is on improving perception, understanding, and response in the physical AI model. The AI inference chip is undergoing large-scale system testing, with commercial development expected to start next year. The next generation VLA-based autonomous driving system is expected to have at least three times the performance to cost ratio of current high-end chips, with continuous performance improvement and cost-effective development as future priorities.

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