Upstart (UPST.US) 2025年第三季度业绩电话会
文章语言:
简
繁
EN
Share
Minutes
原文
会议摘要
Upstart reported Q3 2025 revenue growth of 71% to $277 million, with strong AI model performance, strategic third-party capital arrangements, and expansion into new lending products, despite market challenges. Q4 revenue forecast at $288 million, aiming for 22% adjusted EBITDA margin in 2025, with a focus on reducing balance sheet holdings and optimizing model conservatism for sustainable growth.
会议速览
The earnings call for Upstart's Q3 2025 showcased 80% year-on-year growth in transaction volume, 71% revenue growth, and significant profitability. The company emphasized its strong position in AI-driven credit solutions, underpinned by exceptional credit performance and strategic macroeconomic handling.
Despite growing consumer demand, Upstart's platform saw reduced transaction volume due to macroeconomic signals. Risk models adjusted by moderating approvals and raising interest rates, ensuring credit performance wasn't compromised. The system's precision in responding to economic changes is highlighted, showcasing Upstart's commitment to credit integrity.
Upstart has achieved significant growth in auto and home lending, doubled lending rooftops, and expanded partnerships. The company leverages AI for rapid response to economic changes, offering best rates and processes, aiming for a future of always-on credit access.
A discussion on significant technological improvements enhancing loan processing, customer acquisition, and product development, highlighting advancements in AI, underwriting, and marketing strategies that promise increased efficiency and market competitiveness.
Despite slight underperformance in transaction revenue, the quarter ended with strong annual and sequential revenue growth, achieving profitability. Interest income from balance sheet performance offset transaction shortfalls. Progress in closing new product deals and accessible third-party capital support growth, despite recent model caution due to economic indicators.
Discussed Q3 2025 financials, highlighting 71% YoY revenue growth, strategic balance sheet adjustments, and efforts to scale new products through third-party capital arrangements. Emphasized prudent underwriting and AI-driven credit performance improvements.
Analyzing a favorable economic backdrop for credit, with decelerating personal consumption signaling improved credit health, full employment, and tariff policy impacts, the company forecasts Q4 2025 revenues at $288 million, driven by fee revenue and net interest income, alongside GAAP and adjusted net income growth. Strategic investments in customer lifetime value and fixed expense discipline underpin the financial strategy, aiming for a 22% adjusted EBITDA margin and $50 million GAAP net income for 2025.
The dialogue explores the contrast between robust application demand and unexpectedly lower guidance, with a focus on understanding how these elements align. The speaker inquires about the strong demand in the third quarter and its relation to the guidance, which was below expectations. The conversation highlights the need for clarity on how strong demand and lower guidance can coexist.
Discussed significant 30% quarter-over-quarter application growth, highlighting effective marketing and cross-selling. Noted a temporary shift towards model conservatism due to macro factors, which naturally reverted, emphasizing the health of the business despite not fully translating into expected volume increases.
A discussion on how recent high-profile bankruptcies and negative credit events in the auto industry have not significantly impacted expansion strategies or customer interactions, with an emphasis on rigorous underwriting processes and increased market caution.
Discussion revolves around the decrease in super prime segment originations, attributing it to model adjustments due to macroeconomic signals and heightened competition. The super prime segment, particularly those with higher FICO scores, experienced a significant impact, reflecting both model tightening and competitive pricing pressures. Despite this, there remains positive demand and funding capacity support from bank partners.
The dialogue highlights the strategic use of AI in marketing to improve lead quality, resulting in higher application volumes. Despite conservative credit practices affecting conversion rates, the company expresses confidence in its auto loan business due to strong credit performance and market calibration, suggesting potential for increased originations.
The dialogue revolves around the expectation of application volume growth, emphasizing the continued cautious approach in the model for the fourth quarter, despite indications of economic improvement. It highlights the tension between maintaining conservative estimates and recognizing signs of recovery in the U and I sectors.
The discussion highlights the materializing improvements in Umi, noting their conservative approach in monitoring impacts. Despite the Umi rise's subsiding, Q4 will still be affected, reflecting the model's Q3 impact. This lagging effect underscores the ongoing financial implications.
The conversation highlights that refinancing credit card debt remains the primary driver of personal loan demand, with personal loans also serving as a versatile financial tool competing with secured loans in various scenarios.
Discussion focused on positive progress in talks with funding partners for RD products and auto credit, noting good appetite despite increased diligence. Emphasized strong credit performance and anticipation of near-term outcomes.
Discusses how model conservatism impacts conversion rates by reducing approvals, increasing rejection rates, and slightly decreasing loan sizes, aiming for a less responsive model to stabilize rates around 20%.
Discusses the influence of macro conditions and applicant mix on conversion rates, emphasizing the trade-offs in targeting applicants for optimal business outcomes.
The dialogue discusses advancements in model responsiveness to macroeconomic signals, highlighting efforts to reduce measurement error and unwanted variance in conversion rates, aiming for more stable and accurate performance in future periods.
Discussion revolves around the rise in loan repayments, exploring potential reasons beyond refinancing, such as improved borrower financial health. It highlights the dual impact of faster repayments—short-term reduced interest earnings versus long-term benefits indicating stronger consumer fiscal stability. The conversation underscores the model's response to these changes, adjusting for shorter loan durations and anticipating positive credit outcomes.
The dialogue explores the factors influencing origination rates, focusing on approval processes and consumer acceptance. It questions whether these elements disproportionately affect conversion rates and inquires about the prevalence of comparison shopping among applicants, suggesting a potential competitive edge in the market.
Conversion rate fluctuations are largely influenced by model conservatism affecting approvals, with significant impacts at the lower credit spectrum. Contrary to expectations, declines are not concentrated in the super prime segment but occur predominantly at the opposite end, contributing to overall lower conversion rates.
Discussion focuses on HELOC product's day one economics, with expectations of healthy but modest take rates relative to corporate average, suggesting rates could be roughly half but with loan sizes significantly larger.
Discusses credit performance adjustments, model reliability, and strategies for market growth, emphasizing model-driven pricing and learning systems.
Discusses the model's adaptive response to perceived increased risks, emphasizing its accuracy and the strategies employed to minimize sampling errors and improve future performance. Highlights the importance of directional responsiveness in credit assessment, balancing conservatism with accuracy to maintain robust credit performance.
The dialogue expresses optimism for the fourth quarter and future growth, attributing success to strong consumer health, improving models, and new product launches. Despite a conservative approach, the speaker views it as a strength, indicating confidence in upcoming performance.
The dialogue explores the K-shaped economic recovery, highlighting differences in Umi trends between subprime and super prime segments. It clarifies that subprime borrowers are in relatively good shape with modest Uis, while prime segments show elevated default rates and higher Uis. The super prime segment, particularly those with scores above 800, is thriving but less involved in unsecured borrowing. The discussion emphasizes the importance of precise labeling and understanding the U-shaped economic recovery pattern.
Discussed factors behind reduced Engineering and Gna Opex lines, highlighting expense discipline and mechanical adjustments due to lowered business outlook, impacting bonus payouts and comp accruals.
HELOC loans serve as versatile financing tools, commonly used for home improvements, debt consolidation, or retirement expenses. They are considered substitutes for personal loans, differing mainly in rates and processes, offering borrowers a range of options for general purpose funding needs.
The dialogue explores the tightening or conservative trends observed among auto finance companies and various lenders, including unsecured and subprime sectors, highlighting the dichotomy in their operations and market responses during the recent quarter.
The discussion revolves around understanding discrepancies between the engine's predictions and market trends, specifically seeking clarity on the engine's calibration process. Participants inquire about the demographic or geographic pockets of weakness that influence credit trends, aiming to demystify the engine's decision-making process.
Discussed a sophisticated system designed to analyze credit performance in real-time, offering insights faster and more accurately than traditional metrics, which often lag due to the complexity of borrower data and loan cohorts.
要点回答
Q:What are the key achievements of Upstart highlighted in the speech?
A:Upstart's key achievements highlighted include being a stronger company with better technology, business, and teams; having AI leadership and precise macro handling; achieving 80% year-on-year growth in transaction volume and 71% revenue growth; growing consumer demand with over 30% increase in applications; managing risk models to respond to macroeconomic signals; maintaining profitability and a strong credit performance; new product offerings such as small dollar loans, auto, and home loans; continued innovation in processes and partnerships; strong capital market execution with new partner agreements; strong balance sheet with excess capacity and new logo additions; and issuing a securitization with strong demand and oversubscription.
Q:What progress has been made with Upstart's AI and credit models?
A:Upstart's AI and credit models have made significant progress, particularly in responding with speed and precision to macroeconomic changes. The model's ability to adjust has been enhanced by a calibration methodology that is expected to reduce unwanted monthly volatility in model calibration. Further, new product offerings like auto retail and secured personal loans have been developed, showcasing the effectiveness of these models in different financial segments.
Q:What challenges did Upstart encounter in Q3 and how were they addressed?
A:Upstart encountered challenges in Q3 with transaction volume being less than anticipated despite high consumer demand. This was addressed by risk models that reduced approvals and increased interest rates in response to macroeconomic signals, leading to a decrease in the conversion rate. The company believes this was a temporary 'speed bump' as there was no material deterioration in consumer credit strength and recent signs of improvement were observed.
Q:How is Upstart continuing to innovate in personal loans and customer acquisition?
A:Upstart is continuing to innovate in personal loans and customer acquisition by reducing end-to-end latency, launching a true machine learning model to optimize take rates, creating a framework that allows the use of their underwriting algorithms in partnership ecosystems, and developing a technique to target marketing spend based on causal impact for better return on investment. These innovations are designed to enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of the personal loan and customer acquisition processes.
Q:What advancements have been made in the home equity loan process and other newer products?
A:Upstart has made advancements in the home equity loan process by using multimodal AI to expedite the review of documents typically required in home loans. This innovation is expected to lead to an industry-leading home equity product. Additionally, improvements in small dollar relief loans include instant funding capabilities, allowing most borrowers to see funds in their bank account shortly after approval. These developments are part of Upstart's ongoing efforts to refine and enhance its newer product offerings.
Q:What is the status of third-party capital availability and how is it impacting the company's growth?
A:Third-party capital in the core unsecured lending segment remains readily accessible, outstripping the company's borrower supply and not impeding growth. Compression of spreads on third-party capital indicates a competitive funding environment and investor confidence in the company's credit performance.
Q:How is the company managing credit performance and what indicators suggest about future credit health?
A:The company prioritizes accurate credit performance, believing AI models better suited for a complex environment. Recent caution in the model, due to factors like rising repayment speeds and a slight drop in consumption growth, is seen as an indicator of imminent credit improvement and potential acceleration of growth prospects.
Q:What were the financial highlights of Q3, including revenue, net interest income, and expenses?
A:Q3 had total revenue of approximately $277 million, up 71% year over year and 8% sequentially. Revenue from fees was approximately $259 million, up year over year but short of internal expectations. Servicing revenue grew 10% sequentially. Net interest income was approximately $19 million, resulting from strong return performance. GAAP operating expenses were around $253 million, with variable costs related to borrower acquisition, verification, and servicing up sequentially.
Q:What was the volume of loan transactions, average loan size, and contribution margin in Q3?
A:The volume of loan transactions was approximately 428,000, up 128% from the prior year and representing approximately 75,000 new borrowers. The average loan size was approximately $6,670, down 12% from the prior quarter. The contribution margin, a non-GAAP metric, was 50% in Q3, down approximately 2 percentage points from the prior quarter.
Q:What is the company's approach to expanding new products and third-party capital arrangements?
A:The company is focusing on new product introductions and aims to put third-party capital arrangements in place to shift away from balance sheet funding and release invested capital. Progress on this front is being made, with the expectation of having multiple agreements in place for new product lines in 2026.
Q:What is the company's outlook for Q4 and the full year of 2025?
A:For Q4, the company expects total revenues of approximately $288 million, with revenue from fees of approximately $262 million and total net interest income of approximately $26 million. The contribution margin is expected to be approximately 53%, with GAAP net income of approximately $17 million and adjusted net income of approximately $52 million. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be approximately $63 million. For the full year of 2025, total revenues are expected to be approximately $1.035 billion.
Q:How did the application demand grow in the third quarter and how does it relate to the guidance provided?
A:Application demand grew about 30% quarter on quarter, which was ahead of the origination transaction volume growth. This growth is attributed to successful marketing programs and cross-selling efforts. The increase in applications is viewed positively, despite being slightly conservative in the third quarter, as it highlights a robust business outlook even if the transaction volume didn't meet the highest expectations.
Q:What is the perceived impact of fraudulent activity on the market and bank financing practices?
A:The impact of fraudulent activity on the market is considered to be limited and not widespread according to the speaker. While it has created some caution and increased diligence among banks and senior financing providers, there has been no major issue reported.
Q:What measures have been taken to address risks in the auto lending area?
A:The company has been rigorous in building processes to effectively underwrite the dealership and mitigate risks associated with dealer activity. They have not seen any major issues despite the challenges highlighted in the market.
Q:What is the originations trend in the super prime segment and what factors may be influencing it?
A:Originations in the super prime segment were down sequentially, and it is suggested that model tightness and macro signals are influencing this segment. The low to mid 700s FICO score range showed a relatively low UMI, and there is a model impact on this segment. The segment is also described as very competitive with price impact as a factor of competition.
Q:How is the AI system's impact on customer acquisition and application quality?
A:The AI system has had some positive wins in customer acquisition by selecting people with a high propensity to apply and convert. The likelihood of converting through the funnel is mentioned as a factor, but the overall model impact and the choice to be more conservative in credit selection led to marketing to less likely approved individuals. Despite this, the model is still expected to influence Q4.
Q:Is there an improvement in nonprime auto delinquencies and how significant would it be for auto originations?
A:There has been very good credit performance in auto, and the models are working well. A potential transition or inflection point in the market may be positive for the company as it expands into the auto business. The company feels optimistic about the future of the auto business and believes that any disruption or noise in the market can present opportunities.
Q:What is the implication of UMI changes on model impact in Q4?
A:The improvements in UMI have materialized and were conservative. Even though they are subsiding, the model impact from Q3 will continue to affect Q4. As of the month of October, some amount of Q4 was impacted by the UMI rise.
Q:Is refinancing credit card debt still the main driver for personal loan demand?
A:Refinancing credit card debt continues to be the dominant use case for personal loans, but personal loans are also used for a wide variety of purposes. They are particularly useful for fast, easy, and competitive financing, which sometimes competes with secured loans for certain types of purchases.
Q:How have conversations with potential funding partners for the RD products trended recently?
A:Conversations with potential funding partners for the RD products are trending positively. There is a large deal appetite with good progress across various new product areas, although the timeline for these large, multibank deals is not perfectly predictable. There is no reported contraction in demand from private credit partners and discussions are ongoing regarding deal processes, legal processes, financing, and bank relationships.
Q:What is the primary driver of the change in conversion rate mentioned in the speech?
A:The primary driver of the change in conversion rate is the conservatism in the model, which results in marginally fewer people being approved, higher rates of approved loan size, and an overall less responsive model.
Q:What other factors, besides the model's conservatism, might be influencing the conversion rate?
A:Other factors influencing the conversion rate include the mix of applicants and macroeconomic conditions. The latter affects the financial health of borrowers and is a significant contributor to the overall conversion rate.
Q:How has the model's response to macro signals been adjusted to reduce variance in conversion rates?
A:The model's response to the latest macro signals has been managed to reduce variance in conversion rates. Improvements were made to how the model reacts to changes in macro conditions, aiming for faster and more precise responses while minimizing unwanted variance caused by sampling and measurement error.
Q:What impact has faster loan repayment speeds had on the model's pricing and overall consumer health?
A:Faster loan repayment speeds are generally a positive sign of improving underlying consumer health and are adversely correlated with defaults over time. In the short term, however, faster repayments result in less interest earned to offset defaults, leading the model to become more conservative in pricing by increasing the coupon in loans.
Q:Has the shift in the conversion rate been predominantly related to the model's conservatism, as discussed in the speech?
A:Yes, the conversion rate changes have predominantly been related to the model's level of conservatism, with the most significant impact coming from changes in approvals.
Q:What is the projected take rate for the HELOC product and how does it compare to the corporate average?
A:The projected take rate for the HELOC product is expected to be roughly half the amount of the corporate average but on much larger loan sizes.
Q:What are the primary performance metrics for the model mentioned in the speech?
A:The primary performance metrics for the model are model separation and model calibration.
Q:What is model calibration and how has it been performing?
A:Model calibration is about the credit performance of the model. It has been exceptionally strong during the time period discussed.
Q:Why did the model's ability to approve or convert people weaken?
A:The model's ability to approve or convert people weakened as a result of increased conservatism stemming from observations of elevated risk signals in various pockets of borrowers.
Q:How has the model's responsiveness to risk signals evolved?
A:The model has evolved to have a more conservative approach in response to risk signals, which is seen as a feature rather than a bug. The model's ability to detect and respond to changes is considered strong.
Q:What is the company's outlook for the fourth quarter and 2026?
A:The company is quite optimistic about the fourth quarter, with good growth rates, appropriate conservatism, a strong pipeline of model improvements expected to drive conversion rates up, and a belief in the overall strength of consumer health and the model.
Q:Why does the speaker consider the conservative approach of the model as a feature?
A:The speaker considers the conservative approach of the model as a feature because it signifies the model's strength in making different decisions or taking a different stance on the market, leading to a belief in the model's overall health and resilience.
Q:How is the UMI related to the economy's segmentation, according to the speaker?
A:The UMI suggests that there is a segmentation in the economy where the sub-660 population, as measured through traditional credit scores, is in good shape with respect to default trends pre-Covid. Conversely, the 720 to 750 segment has elevated default rates compared to pre-Covid levels, indicating a U-shaped economy with different performance levels across various segments.
Q:What is the use case for the broader unsecured loans and specifically for HELOC loans?
A:HELOC loans are general-purpose loans used for various reasons such as home improvement, other types of debt, retirement, or personal needs. The company views HELOC loans and personal loans as potential substitutes for each other.
Q:What does the model reveal about its decision-making process in response to market trends?
A:The model has been intentionally built to respond faster than traditional credit metrics, providing real-time insights into credit performance by controlling for various borrower population changes and risk factors. This allows the model to detect precise and segment-specific patterns or broad trends that may not be visible with conventional metrics. The goal is to be faster and more precise than others in detecting market changes.

Upstart Holdings, Inc.
Follow





